"Obama has to be persuaded
to avoid nuclear war"
• Fidel answers questions from
Carmen Lira Saade, editor of Mexico’s La Jornada
newspaper
(Taken from CubaDebate)
HAVANA. He was fighting for his life
for four years. Entering and leaving the operating
room, intubated, being fed intravenously, catheters,
frequent lapses into unconsciousness…
"My illness is no state secret," he
would have said just before it became a crisis and
forced him to "do what I had to do:" to delegate his
functions as president of the Council of State and
consequently, as Commander in Chief of the Armed
Forces of Cuba.
"I cannot continue any longer," he
admitted then – as he reveals in this his first
interview with a foreign newspaper since that time.
He made the transfer of command, and handed himself
over to the doctors.
That event shook the entire nation,
friends from other parts; prompted his detractors to
cherish revanchist hopes and put the powerful
neighbor to the North on a state of alert. It was
July 31, 2006 when the resignation letter of the
maximum leader of the Cuban Revolution was
officially announced.
What his most ferocious enemies
failed to obtain in 50 years (blockades, wars,
assassination attempts) was attained by an illness
about which nobody knew anything and everything was
speculated. An illness which that regime, whether he
accepted it or not, was going to convert into a
"state secret."
(I am thinking about Raúl, about the
Raúl Castro of those moments. It was not only the
package that he was suddenly entrusted with,
although he was always in agreement; it was the
delicate state of health of his partner Vilma Espín
– who died of cancer shortly afterward – and the
highly possible death of his older brother and the
only leader in the military, political and family
contexts.)
Forty days ago today, Fidel Castro
reappeared in public in a definitive way, at least
without any apparent danger of a relapse. In a
relaxed atmosphere and when everything would make
one think that the storm has passed, the most
important man of the Cuban Revolution looks healthy
and vital, while not fully dominating his leg
movements.
For the approximately five hours
that the conversation-interview with La Jornada
lasted – including lunch – Fidel tackled the most
diverse issues, although he is obsessed by some in
particular. He allowed questions about anything –
although he was the one who asked the most – and
reviewed for the first time and with a painful
frankness certain moments of health crises that he
has suffered over the last four years.
"I arrived at the point of being
dead," he revealed with an amazing tranquility. He
did not mention by name the diverticulitis that he
was suffering from, nor the hemorrhages that led the
specialists of his medical team to operate on
various or many occasions, with a risk to his life
every time.
What he did speak on at length was
the suffering that he endured. And he showed no
inhibition about describing that painful stage as a
"Calvary."
"I no longer aspired to live, or far
less… I asked myself on various occasions if those
people (his doctors) were going to let me live in
those conditions or if they were going to let me
die… Then I survived, but in very poor physical
shape. I reached the point of weighing just over 50
kilos."
"Sixty-six kilos," clarifies Dalia,
his inseparable compañera who was there for
the conversation. Only she, two of his doctors and
another two of his closest collaborators were
present.
"Imagine: a guy of my height
weighing 66 kilos. Now I’ve gone up to 85-86 kilos,
and this morning I managed to take 600 steps on my
own, without my stick, unaided.
"I am telling you that you are in
the presence of a kind of re-sus-citat-ed man," he
stressed with a certain pride. He knows that, in
addition to the magnificent medical team which
attended him during all those years, thus putting to
the test the quality of Cuban medicine, he has been
able to count on his will and that steel discipline
that is always imposed when he embarks on something.
"I never commit the slightest
violation," he affirmed. "Moreover, that means that
I have become a doctor with the cooperation of
doctors. I discuss things with them, ask questions
(he asks many), learn (and he obeys)…"
He is fully aware of the reasons for
his accidents and falls, although he insists that
one hasn’t necessarily led to another. "The first
time it was because I didn’t do the necessary
warm-up before playing basketball." Then came that
of Santa Clara: Fidel was coming down from the
statue to Che, where he had presided over a tribute,
and fell head first. "That was influenced by the
fact that those who look after you are also getting
old, losing their faculties and didn’t take care,"
he clarified.
That was followed by the fall in
Holguín, likewise a severe one. All of these
accidents before the other illness turned into a
crisis, leaving him hospitalized for a long time.
"Laid out in that bed, I only looked
around me, ignorant of all those machines. I didn’t
know how long that torment was going to last and my
only hope was that the world would stop;" surely in
order not to miss anything. "But I rose from the
dead," he said proudly.
"And when you rose from the dead,
Comandante, what did you find?" I asked him.
"A seemingly insane world… A world
that appears every day on television, in the
newspapers, and which nobody understands, but one
that I would not have wanted to miss for anything in
the world," he smiled in amusement.
With a surprising energy for a human
being rising from the dead, as he put it, and with
exactly the same intellectual curiosity as before,
Fidel Castro has brought himself up to date.
Those who know him well, say that
every project, colossal or millimetric, which he
undertakes he does so with a fierce passion, and
even more so if he has to confront adversity, as had
been and was the case.
"That is when he seems to be in the
best humor." Someone who claims to know him well
told him: "Things must be going very badly, because
you’re looking in fine health."
This survivor’s task of accumulating
daily news begins when he wakes up. He devours books
with a reading speed obtained by nobody knows what
method; he reads 200-300 news cables every day; he
is aware of and up to date on new communication
technologies; he is fascinated by Wikileaks, "the
deep throat of Internet," famous for the leaking of
more than 90,000 military documents on Afghanistan,
on which this new ‘surfer’ is working.
"You see what this means,
compañera?" he said to me. "Internet has placed in
our hands the possibility of communicating with the
world. We didn’t have any of that before," he
commented, while he delights in reviewing and
selecting cables and texts downloaded from the net,
which he has on his desk: a small item of furniture,
two small for the size (even diminished by illness)
of its occupant.
"The secrets are over, or at least
would appear to be. We are in the face of a
‘high-technology research journalism,’ as The New
York Times calls it, in the reach of everybody.
"We are in the face of the most
powerful weapon that has ever existed, which is
communication," he interjects. "The power of
communication has been and is in the hands of the
empire and of ambitious private groups who used and
abused it, that is why the media has fabricated the
power that its boasts today."
I listen to him and couldn’t help
but think of Chomsky; any of the deceptions that the
empire attempts must previously have the support of
the media, principally newspapers and television,
and today, naturally, with all the instruments
offered by Internet.
It is the media that creates
consensus before any action. "It is making the bed,"
we would say… It is setting up the theater of
operations.
However, Fidel added, although they
have tried to preserve that power intact, they have
been unable to. They are losing it day by day, while
others, many, very many, are emerging every minute…
He went on to acknowledge the
efforts of some websites and media in addition to
Wikileaks: on the Latin America side, Telesur of
Venezuela; Canal Encuentro, the Argentine TV
cultural channel; and all the public and private
media that are standing up to the region’s powerful
private consortiums and the news, culture and
entertainment transnationals.
Reports on the manipulation of
information on the part of powerful national or
regional business groups, their conspiracies to
enthrone or eliminate governments or political
figures, or on the "dictatorship" exercised by the
empire via its transnationals, are now within the
reach of all mortals.
But not of Cuba, which has just
about one Internet port (ISP) for the entire
country, comparable to that of any Hilton or
Sheraton hotel.
That is why connecting in Cuba is a
desperate business. It is like surfing in slow
motion.
"Why is it like that?" I asked.
"Because of the categorical refusal
of the United States to give the island Internet
access via one of the underwater fiber optic cables
that pass close to our coast. Cuba is obliged,
instead, to download a satellite signal, which makes
the service that the Cuban government has to pay
much more expensive, and prevents the use of a
broader band that could allow access to many more
users and at the speed normal throughout the world
with broadband."
And that is why the Cuban government
is giving connection priority not to those who can
pay for the cost of the service, but to those who
most need it, like doctors, academics, journalists,
professionals, government ‘cadres’ and social use
Internet clubs. It cannot do any more.
I think about the extraordinary efforts of the Cuban
website CubaDebate to internally nourish and take
the country’s information abroad under the current
conditions. But, according to Fidel, Cuba could find
a solution to this situation.
He was referring to the conclusion
of underwater cables extending from La Guaira port
in Venezuela to the outskirts of Santiago de Cuba.
With these works being undertaken by the government
of Hugo Chávez, the island could have broadband and
possibilities for a huge amplification of the
service.
"Cuba, and you in particular, have
been pointed to many times as maintaining a strictly
anti-U.S. position and you have even been accused of
bearing hatred toward that nation," I said to him.
"Nothing of the kind," he clarified.
"Why hate the United States if it is only a product
of history?"
But, in real terms: barely 40 days
ago, when he had not completely "risen," he
concentrated – as a variation – on his powerful
neighbor in his new Reflections.
"The thing is that I began to see
very clearly the problems of the growing world
dictatorship…" and he presented, in the light of all
the information that he was managing, the "imminence
of a nuclear attack that would unleash a world
conflagration."
He was still unable to go out and
talk, to do what he is doing now, he told me. He
could just about write with some fluidity, because
he not only had to learn how to walk again, but
also, at the age of 84, he had learn to write again.
"I came out of hospital, I went
home, but I walked, I exceeded myself. Then I had to
do rehabilitation for my feet. By then I was already
managing to relearn writing.
"The qualitative jump came when I
could dominate all the elements that made it
possible for me to do everything that I am doing
now. But I can and must improve… I can get to the
point of walking well. Today, as I told you, I
walked 600 steps alone, without a stick, without
anything, and I have to balance that with climbing
up and going down, with the hours that I sleep, with
work."
"What is there behind this frenzy of
work which, instead of rehabilitation could lead him
to a relapse?"
Fidel concentrated, closed his eyes
as if to sleep, but no… he returns to the charge:
"I do not wish to be absent in these days. The world
is in the most interesting and dangerous phase of
its existence and I am very committed to what is
going to happen. I still have things to do."
"Like what?"
"Like constituting a whole
anti-nuclear war movement;" that is what he has been
devoting himself to since his reappearance.
"Creating an international force of
persuasion to avoid that colossal threat happening,"
represents a tremendous challenge, and Fidel has
never been able to resist a challenge.
"In the beginning I thought that the
nuclear attack would be on North Korea, but I soon
rectified that because I said to myself that China
would stop that with its Security Council veto…
"But nobody is stopping that of
Iran, because there is no Chinese or Russian veto.
Then came the (UN) Resolution and although Brazil
and Turkey voted against it, Lebanon didn’t and so
the decision was taken."
Fidel is calling on scientists,
economists, communicators, etc to give their
opinions on what the mechanism might be via which
the horror is going to be unleashed and the way that
it might be avoided. He has even taken them to
exercises of science fiction.
"Think, think!" he urges in
discussions. "Reason, imagine," exclaims the
enthusiastic teacher that he has become in recent
days.
Not everyone has understood his
concern. More than a few people have seen his new
campaign as preaching disaster or even delirious. To
that must be added the fear of many that his health
will suffer a relapse.
Fidel is not giving up: nothing or
nobody is capable of even holding him back. He needs
to convince as rapidly as possible in order to
detain the nuclear conflagration that, he insists,
is threatening to obliterate a large part of
humanity. "We have to mobilize the world to persuade
Barack Obama, president of the United States, to
avoid a nuclear war. That is the only thing that he
can do or not do, press the button."
With the data that he handles like
an expert and the documents backing up his words,
Fidel is questioning and making a spine-chilling
exposition:
"Do you know the nuclear power that
is held by a good few countries in the world at
present, compared to that of the Hiroshima and
Nagasaki era?
"It is 470,000 times the explosive
power of either of the two bombs that the United
States dropped on those two Japanese cities; 470,000
times more," he emphasizes, scandalized.
That is the power of each one of the
20,000-plus nuclear weapons calculated as being in
the world today.
With much less than that power –
with just 100 – a nuclear winter which would darken
the world in its totality could be produced.
This barbarity could come about in a
matter of days, to be more precise, on September 9,
which is when the 90-day period given by the UN
Security Council before inspecting Iran shipping
expires.
"Do you think that the Iranians are
going to give in? Can you imagine that? Courageous
and religious men who see death as almost a prize…
Well, the Iranians are not going to give in, that is
a fact. Are the Yankis going to give in? And,
what is going to happen if neither one gives in? And
that could happen on September 9."
Gabriel García Márquez wrote on the
41st anniversary of Hiroshima: "One minute after the
explosion, more than half of human beings will have
died, the dust and smoke of continents in flames
will defeat sunlight and total shadows will return
to reign in the world. A winter of orange-colored
rain and icy hurricanes will invert the season of
the oceans and turn around the course of the rivers,
whose fish will have died of thirst in the boiling
waters… the era of rock ’n’ roll and heart
transplants will revert to its ice infancy…"
"I DO NOT HARBOR THE LEAST DOUBT
THAT THERE WILL BE GREAT CHANGES IN MEXICO"
"Tell me, tell me, what is all this
that the "mafia" is saying about everything that I
wrote?"
"It isn’t only the mafia, all right?
There are more people disconcerted by those
Reflections, Comandante. Not to mention the
displeasure that you gave to the Mexican
government."
"I had no interest in criticizing
the government… Why would I get involved with the
Mexican government? For fun? If I devoted myself to
getting involved with governments, to stating the
bad or erroneous things that I consider they have
done, Cuba wouldn’t have any relations.
"It is being said that with your
praise and open acknowledgements, what you said to
Andrés Manuel López Obrador was the "kiss of the
devil"… and people are asking why it is that you are
now making public both the statements of Carlos
Ahumada to Cuban justice and details of your
singular relationship with Carlos Salinas de
Gortari. They suspect a hidden intention."
"No, no, no. I had the good fortune
to find Andrés Manuel’s book. Somebody gave it to me
at the end of the (National) Assembly session. I
read it rapidly and its reading inspired me to write
what I wrote."
"What inspired you?"
"Discovering what he had done with
the land, with the mines; what he had done with the
oil… Finding out about the theft, the plunder that
that great country has suffered; about that
barbarity that they have committed, (and why Mexico
is as it is today…)"
"There are mistrustful people on one
side or the other who are insisting that there are
other intentions behind your chance words."
"No. I hadn’t planned to write what
I wrote; it wasn’t within my plans. I have a free
agenda."
"Well, it’s caused an uproar, I can
tell you. They are accusing you of having unleashed
a whole political scandal and the criticisms are
raining down because they are saying that whether
for good or bad, Comandante, you have gotten
involved with the Mexican electoral process…"
"Ah! Yes?" he asks very animatedly.
"So there is criticism of me? How good, how good!
Send me them! And who are these criticisms coming
from?"
"From many people, apart from one.
The only one – of those involved – who has not said
a single word is Carlos Salinas…
"Because he’s the most intelligent
one, he always was, as well as being more skillful,"
said Fidel with a mischievous smile. Judging by his
expression, it would seem that he is already waiting
for Salinas’ response. At best, even a book.
He went on to repeat some of the
paragraphs of his Reflections: that Salinas had been
in solidarity with Cuba, that he had acted as a
mediator (appointed by Clinton in 1994) between the
United States and the island "and conducted himself
well and really acted as a mediator and not as an
ally of the United States…"
He related that when Salinas
obtained permission from the Cuban government to
take refuge in that country and even "legally"
acquire a house, that they saw "quite a lot of each
other" and exchanged points of view, et cetera.
"I came to think that he never tried
to deceive me," Fidel said sarcastically.
"Really?" I asked. Did Salinas
comment on or consult with him concerning his
government’s decision to open up relations with
self-declared terrorist organizations, such as the
Cuban-American National Foundation, created with the
exclusive purpose of overthrowing the regime and
assassinating its president, Fidel Castro?
For the first time in the history of
relations between the two countries, a Mexican
government opened the doors of the presidential
palace to Jorge Mas Canosa, at that time president
of that paramilitary organization, and an old enemy
of the Cuban Revolution.
"The man that you brought to this
house was a killer," I told Carlos Salinas on that
occasion, during an interview with La Jornada.
Salinas nodded, giving me the right. But he
immediately justified himself by saying that his
government was seeking participation with Cuban
"plurality" in the "dialogue" that was taking place
for a rapprochement between the two sides.
"I wish to state that Mexico is
extremely respectful of the internal processes
decided by the Cubans," Salinas affirmed then.
"But what is happening to Cuba is
not going to be at a remove from Mexicans; Mexicans
cannot be absent from the transformations that might
happen in that country because they will have
repercussions in Mexico, in all of Latin America. We
have to maintain this communication with the whole
range of opinions… (La Jornada, August 1992).
"Opinions? Mexico needed the
"opinion" of a criminal to enrich its dialogue with
neighboring countries," I enquired now.
Fidel had lowered his head and
asked, as if to himself:
"Why did he do that to us? He had
conducted himself as a friend of Cuba. Pending
political and economic matters were being arranged
with him, finally… He gave the impression that he
didn’t have any problems with us.
"Why the hell did he have to receive
that bandit?" he asked, somewhat disconcerted.
But he didn’t want to say anything
more. He had turned the page a while back or had
reserved it for the moment at which – after the
obligatory balancing – he would decide to make
public knowledge the termination of his relationship
with the former Mexican president, as occurred with
his Reflection "The giant with the seven-league
boots."
"Cuba never wanted to hand over the
filmed documentation that confirmed the conspiracy
against López Obrador, as the PRD was demanding at
the time.
"In that we could not please them,"
he explained. "We sent all the documentation to the
authority asking for his extradition (the Mexican
Foreign Ministry). Any other attitude would not have
been serious," he emphasized.
Then, Fidel became seriously ill and
that matter, like many others, had had to wait.
"Why the mention of López Obrador at
this pre-electoral moment?
"Because I had a debt with him. I
wanted to tell him (although he did not agree to
hand over the documentation asked for) that we were
not in any conspiracy against him, nor (were we) or
are we aligned with anybody in order to damage him.
That, as I said in what I wrote, I am honored to
share his points of view.
"That is precisely where they are
saying that you gave him ‘the kiss of the devil,’
Comandante."
"So we won’t even mention inviting
him to Cuba, right?" he said with a roguish smile. "That
would be risking too much, wouldn’t it? That whole
gang would fall on top of him, to discredit him and
take votes away from him.
"Like 50 years ago, in the early
days of the Revolution, when traveling to Cuba was a
totally daring undertaking. One photo arriving or
leaving the Mexican airport for Havana could result
in persecution, blows, prison…"
Fidel maintained his that little
laugh of his, and advised:
"You Mexicans shouldn’t be so
concerned about these things. All of that is going
to change. I do not harbor the slightest doubt that
there are going to be great changes in Mexico."